Gaikai and InstantAction require no subscription?

[Aph0ticShield]

Gaikai just announced no subscription fee today for their service and instantaction www.instantaction.com also claims to have free online games.

[MAG1270]

I'd love to see their business model.

[thehillissilent]

I'd love to see their business model.

Gaikai doesn't use a portal and it's funded by publishers. For instance, you are on facebook and see a banner "Play Assaains Creed now", you click on it and you are instantly playing the game. You can opt to buy it to keep playing the streaming version or buy the download version. It basically helps publishers advertise their game by making it more accessible to people. They are not trying to replace consoles unlike Onlive.

[wnsleepy]

PLaycast and Otoy are also coming out, one of them for sure has to be cheaper than onlive, otherwise why even fucking bother on making it if you cannot beat prices. Either way I'm not using onlive, ill see which of the other cloud gaming companies has the better offer. You have to love competition, it makes things a lot cheaper for us.

[Nysil]

PLaycast and Otoy are also coming out, one of them for sure has to be cheaper than onlive, otherwise why even fucking bother on making it if you cannot beat prices. Either way I'm not using onlive, ill see which of the other cloud gaming companies has the better offer. You have to love competition, it makes things a lot cheaper for us.

How's this for cheaper? (http://blog.onlive.com/2010/03/11/more-news-from-onlive/)

[Phopojijo]

How's this for cheaper? (http://blog.onlive.com/2010/03/11/more-news-from-onlive/)Fine if you only want to rent (though really even if you buy something, OnLive can deprecate it at any moment and poof -- no servers host it) and you don't want to use any of OnLive's features that are crossed out of the free version.

And as for "If it won't be cheaper, why bother?" argument -- doesn't work... otherwise we wouldn't have 3 consoles per generation... BMW/Audi/etc would disappear... Apple wouldn't have risen in the first place let alone collapse. You cannot directly apply logic to corporate culture -- you need to get in their heads first. Though once you do that, predictions come easy. Most of mine come true. All of those stories are way too tangential though.

[ifresh21]

thhere us tge unity service as well but it isn't cloud gaming its fast tho

[MAG1270]

thhere us tge unity service as well but it isn't cloud gaming its fast tho

Lol, like you said, it's not cloud gaming so why even bring it up?

[ifresh21]

Because instantaction isn't cloud gaming either so why not?

[MAG1270]

Because instantaction isn't cloud gaming either so why not?

Oh, my bad :razz: But Unity3D is an engine, not a game service :)

InstantAction is in no way a competitor to OnLive. The whole idea of OnLive is to play any game on any device, InstantAction still requires the processing power to play. Also look at their featured games, we're talking low end games.

GaiKai is a direct competitor to OnLive. GaiKai also runs the games on their servers and streams the video. If they're able to pull it off is a different story, but let's wait and see what the future brings.

[ifresh21]

gaikai is in a different region (I think) so otoy is more of the direct competitor?

it doesnt matter though either way we have to wait. I can't wait to try onlive im gonna be really impressed if i can play console games on my comp with no perceivable lag.

Ya know, it is actually very interesting - i was playing the just cause 2 demo on ps3 and with all this talk of lag i decided to try and see if a ps3 game has any. So I pushed the stick to move an airplane and long story short, there is DEFINATELY some time between when you push the stick or button and when the movement happens. You won't notice unless you are thinking about it but it is significant. I can move the stick all the way to one side and let it snap back and teh movement won't happen until the stick has stopped moving.

cant wait to try it in other games

Very interesting.

Onlive has a chance.

Btw is it only onlive, otoy, gaikai? any other cloud services out there?

[thehillissilent]

Oh, my bad :razz: But Unity3D is an engine, not a game service :)

InstantAction is in no way a competitor to OnLive. The whole idea of OnLive is to play any game on any device, InstantAction still requires the processing power to play. Also look at their featured games, we're talking low end games.

GaiKai is a direct competitor to OnLive. GaiKai also runs the games on their servers and streams the video. If they're able to pull it off is a different story, but let's wait and see what the future brings.

Let's not forget InstantAction has partnered with Gaikai to stream video for InstantAction games if the user specifies.

[MAG1270]

Let's not forget InstantAction has partnered with Gaikai to stream video for InstantAction games if the user specifies.

I still don't believe InstantAction and GaiKai is going to beat OnLive.

I remember seeing a video of GaiKai in action featuring an emulated version of Mario Kart 64..
I remember seeing a video of OnLive in action featuring Crysis with high resolution, details and everything.

InstantAction and GaiKai just isn't going to cover the high end gaming market. InstantAction would be able to, but it would still require the client to have the processing power on his side. GaiKai only seems to have the server power to run low resolution low end games..

[ifresh21]

There are two reasons for making these cloud gaming things imo and off the top of my head


Low cost casual easy gaming

high performance so you don't need an expensive comp


If the second can't be met there is very little reason for these services if you have a ps3 for home gaming and then maybe an iphone or psp / ds for mobile

I need power and better games higher res

[Fixious]

I don't fully understand how the 2(Gaikai and IA) will be intertwined. They've(IA) stated you'll need all the right hardware to run the games with their new service, however, Gaikai is basically OnLive. It streams everything, eliminating any hardware needs.

I saw their CEO, Castle, mention that you'll be able to stream games in certain situations, so perhaps that's where it comes in. But he made it seem like it wasn't the main feature of IA. And while Monkey Island is indeed a low-end game, they also displayed Assassins Creed within facebook as well, which is far from low-end(compared to Monkey Island atleast :p).

[MAG1270]

And while Monkey Island is indeed a low-end game, they also displayed Assassins Creed within facebook as well, which is far from low-end(compared to Monkey Island atleast :p).

True, but IA still requires the hardware to run the game. The game runs as a native application inside the browser.

[OnLiveFan]

Aren't they giving you the option to download while you play and have it run on your computer or just completely stream games via Gaikai?

[MAG1270]

Aren't they giving you the option to download while you play and have it run on your computer or just completely stream games via Gaikai?

Yes, it's an option to download.

[Dolphin]

InstantAction was very nice at GDC, I talked to them for around a half hour (OnLive didn't have an Expo Booth, BOO @ Them). They break up your game into chunks, where the first chunk can be downloaded quickly and the rest while you play. It was a nice integration into facebook. As far as I can tell, its a way to allow casual games to become more complex (IE, Monkey Island instead of Bejeweled), which makes a nice target for facebook... I honestly don't think people want to play super-fancy games in a facebook page (but I don't use facebook, so what do I know :P )

Edit: They also had a nice piece about student game development (a very social aspect, as most people don't want to buy games with lots of developer art, usually other developers only). I really hope that pans out, there is not a lot of good ways for students to get input on school projects from a playability/fun standpoint.

[thehillissilent]

I'm starting to get more interested in OTOY (www.otoy.com). They are licensing there technology out to publishers. Imagine, if Valve licensed this tech and had all of their games available to play without the hassle of downloading and installing the game as long as you purchased it. They could set up multiple options (stream (play anywhere) /download) and they can control the pricing and availability. I have seen Left4Dead running on OTOY's setup and it looked pretty good. GTA4 was also running on it. As far as Valve is concerned it would be good for business.

[Tyrokiller]

Indeed, I could see valve taking this idea on board. Still I think they would only do that if Onlive proves successful, if not then they probably wont bother.

[MAG1270]

I'm starting to get more interested in OTOY (www.otoy.com). They are licensing there technology out to publishers. Imagine, if Valve licensed this tech and had all of their games available to play without the hassle of downloading and installing the game as long as you purchased it. They could set up multiple options (stream (play anywhere) /download) and they can control the pricing and availability. I have seen Left4Dead running on OTOY's setup and it looked pretty good. GTA4 was also running on it. As far as Valve is concerned it would be good for business.

The only problem with OTOY seems to be their compression algorithm. I remember reading somewhere that they had a showcase where on the iPhone it looked amazing, but on the big screen compression artifacts were very noticeable. :(

But I'm with you, I too are getting more interested in OTOY. May god be with them! :rain:

[dlind70]

More competition is usually good for services and price. Hmm...I'll look into this. :nerd:

[ifresh21]

More competition is usually good for services and price. Hmm...I'll look into this. :nerd:

You won't find much


Whoever let's me try the service for free first will be my favorite

[Fixious]

2-3 weeks is IA's current estimate for launch. Of course, if any of you have been following IA for over a year like I have, take that launch date with an extremely large grain of salt. Like, the size of Mt. Rushmore.

[dlind70]

You won't find much


Whoever let's me try the service for free first will be my favorite
Yep then Onlive's game portal will be one of the first (if not the first) to offer this. I'd say July after the first beta.

[ifresh21]

Wait I am confused. With instant action is the processig done in the cloud or do you need a fast computer?

[MAG1270]

Wait I am confused. With instant action is the processig done in the cloud or do you need a fast computer?

Since they partnered with Gaikai they offer both solutions.

[Fixious]

Streaming games won't really be the main focus for IA, at least that's what I've gotten from all the articles and interviews so far. They're mainly focusing on playing large games(2+ gigs) within a matter of minutes. It'll download only the stuff that's necessary to start playing. Think of it like a YouTube video. A small part of the video will load, which you can then watch. As you watch it, the rest of the video loads. That's essentially what InstantAction will do. For this, you WILL need the right hardware to run the games. For instance, a netbook won't be able to run Crysis with InstantAction.

There will be certain circumstances where instantly streaming will be an option, but for a price(1 cent per minute is what I've heard thrown around (http://games.venturebeat.com/2010/03/16/gaikai-lines-up-financing-for-cloud-based-gaming-services/)). I'm not entirely sure how buddy-buddy the GaiKai/IA relationship is, though I might be able to find out pretty soon(I talk with IA's community manager every once in a while). I've been quite curious about this myself for a while.

edit


By teaming up with game streaming service (and OnLive competitor) Gaikai, InstantAction will be able to mask this initial load time for those who don't want to wait. The progressive download will happen in the background while you play the streaming version. This has the added benefit of of making the games playable to users with under-powered systems, as they can simply play the streaming version. The combination of technologies that will be used by the new InstantAction.com, whenever it actually launches, are designed to ensure that the service is available to as wide an audience as possible.

http://arstechnica.com/business/future-of-cloud/2010/04/cloud-gaming.ars/2

[ifresh21]

Ok I see so there will be an option.

I hope gaikai is in there when ia launches in 2 weeks

[thehillissilent]

http://games.venturebeat.com/2010/03/16/gaikai-lines-up-financing-for-cloud-based-gaming-services/

http://arstechnica.com/business/future-of-cloud/2010/04/cloud-gaming.ars/2

These articles are really interesting. I think GaiKai will be sucessful with their technology. I also can see other publishers creating portals of their own using GaiKai or OTOY tech.

[crash7800]

Sorry I'm a little late to this party, but if anyone has any questions about InstantAction I'd be more than happy to do the best I can to answer them.

I don't know if we're going into too much detail about our partnership with Gaikai yet, but I'll be happy to do my best!

crash7800
InstantAction Community Manager

[MAG1270]

Uhuhouh.. An InstantAction guy joined us. :party:

MAG, don't make him think you're stupid, say something smart!

HAI :awesome:

----

Let's start with a couple of questions just to get the basics straight.

1. How long has IA been in development?
2. Has a release date been set? If not, approximately when will it be out? Hours? Days? Decades?
3. And the question of them all, does it work?

And now for some questions out of personal curiosity.

4. If I bought a game through IA, would I be able to re-download the game as many times as I felt like?
5. Any extra fees needed to play a game on GaiKai?
5b. If yes: Per game? Per minute? Monthly subscription?
6. Is a connection between the client and IA needed in order to play games downloaded from the service? DRM?

[crash7800]

OH HAI DERR! :)

1. How long has IA been in development?

The core of the IA tech, which is the ability to run any game in a browser, has been in work for three years and publicly available at InstantAction.com (currently down during our new development) for two years.

2. Has a release date been set? If not, approximately when will it be out? Hours? Days? Decades?

At PAX East we were quoting 2-3 weeks for the first example of our new technology, The Secret of Monkey Island. I think we're still on track for that or at least very close.

Just for reference, we were also showing off Assassin's Creed 1 running in a browser at GDC this year. While we don't have a deal with Ubisoft yet, we are speaking with many major publishers about distribution.

3. And the question of them all, does it work?

It works very well.

Playing the game in a browser (with full, native support of all features including full-screen), embedding the games like YouTube videos, playing while the rest of the game downloads and cloud saving all work and will be publicly available here very shortly.

IA is all built on proven tech. :)

And now for some questions out of personal curiosity.


4. If I bought a game through IA, would I be able to re-download the game as many times as I felt like?

Currently, games on IA are only available to play in a browser. However, we are planning and working on an offline client as well.

If you buy a game through IA you can play it through the browser as many times as you like on any computer you go to.

We haven't planned for the offline DRM structure yet, but as far as I know (and I would be extremely surprised if we decided otherwise) you can download the games as many times as you like once the feature is available.

5. Any extra fees needed to play a game on GaiKai?


At this point, we haven't announced how we'll be interacting with GaiKai so we haven't announced pricing, etc.

However, I'm really excited because I'm hoping I can get Dave Perry to sign my copy of Earthworm Jim: Special Edition for Sega CD! :)

6. Is a connection between the client and IA needed in order to play games downloaded from the service? DRM?

Because IA is starting off as in-browser only, yes (obviously :) )

However, as I've stated, we're working on an offline mode as well!

- - - -

Keep the questions coming and please let me know what you think!

If any of this doesn't sound legit or appealing don't keep it to yourself - let us know! We're very interested in your feedback and opinion!

Also, if you want to get a quick look at the bigger picture we also have some videos and other information here:

blog.instantaction (dot) com/2010/04/instantaction-videocast-33-coming-tonight.html

and here:

vimeo (dot) com/instantaction

(Sorry about the funky links - don't have enough posts yet to do real ones)

[ifresh21]

Much respect for instant action for interacting with the community.

For me ia's main service isn't right for me because I don't have a very fast computer to play games (do the processing). So I would like to know - when do you guys expect to launch the gaikai service. Not necesserily a date but q1, q2 ,q3, q3 next year. Would be great.

I know you said you don't have much info so idk if you can answer my question but it was worth a try lol.

Maybe one more question. What is the point of using instant action to play games rather than using another download service or buying the game on disc. Besides saving a few minutes when you plaay initially.

Thankyou

[MAG1270]

For me ia's main service isn't right for me because I don't have a very fast computer to play games (do the processing). So I would like to know - when do you guys expect to launch the gaikai service. Not necesserily a date but q1, q2 ,q3, q3 next year. Would be great.

That's a question for GaiKai, not InstantAction.

[ifresh21]

Gaikai is [basically] tech not a service, no?

If not, how can i contact the Gaikai community manager, ?

[MAG1270]

http://www.gaikai.com/

[crash7800]

Maybe one more question. What is the point of using instant action to play games rather than using another download service or buying the game on disc. Besides saving a few minutes when you plaay initially.

Sure!

Well, as you've stated, getting the game quickly no matter where you go is just one of the advantages. Just to put this in perspective, Secret of Monkey Island takes only about a minute to get in and start playing and (as we tested it at GDC) Assassin's Creed (Again, this was only a tech demo - we have no formal partnership with Ubisoft) took about 25 minutes. It may not seem like much, but it can really save you some time if you're playing a few games!

As a side effect, this will also let people check out and demo games very quickly without eating up all their hard drive space.

The next cool thing that we're doing is allowing publishers and developers the option to "Rent-To-Own" games. This means that you'll be able to play a free demo of a game and, if you like it, choose to rent to town the game instead of outright buying it (although you could still just buy it :) ). So, for example, you'd be able to pay a little bit to play an amount of the game and if you liked it keep paying to play as you go or but the game less what you'd already invested in rentals. You can also learn more about this here:

http://blog.instantaction.com/2010/04/instantaction-videocast-35.html (http://blog.instantaction.com/2010/04/instantaction-videocast-35.html)

One of the other cool things that we're allowing is the ability to embed video games on IA like YouTube videos. With this tech can you take any of the games on IA, grab a code snippet, paste the snippit into another web page and you'll be able to demo or play the full game right in that page!

Personally, I think this will have great implications for gaming communities and games in general. This means that if you had a Monkey Island or SUPER GUN GAME 5000 fan page you could embed the game and play it right in the page! If you read a review for these games they could embed the game right at the end of the review and you could start playing a demo right away!

The question I have for you guys is, considering these features and technology (with more cool stuff on the way, btw!) what else would you guys want to see?

Also, I'll see what I can do about getting some more GaiKai info. I know we're pretty tight lipped at the moment, but maybe i can fish something out :)

[ifresh21]

Also, I'll see what I can do about getting some more GaiKai info. I know we're pretty tight lipped at the moment, but maybe i can fish something out :)

Thank you

As far as other ideas, sides gaikai, it is very important that i can use the software and EASILY delete everything. (if IA is a downloaded program at all)

If i could demo a game and delete it and the software like it was never there in a very short amount of time like a minute, that would be great.

[crash7800]

If i could demo a game and delete it and the software like it was never there in a very short amount of time like a minute, that would be great.

As I'm also the customer service manager, I couldn't agree more. We have no desire to stick around on your computer or leave you with anything that hard to remove.

In fact, it's funny you should mention it. I'm just getting ready to write the FAQ articles about how to uninstall everything! :)

[Killview]

I would rather go with OnLive. I have very happy with Steve's work. With all the Major Companies backing him up they seem know how everything works as well as the quality they are getting. Brag clips that can up on youtube, Easy to stream live Gaming, Any Game any where any time, Crysis able to be played on 10yr old pcs as well as Smart phones, showcases, Animated avatars, watch your friends and friends of friends, automatic updates, can switch systems and use pretty much any wireless or usb game pad or keyboard/mouse, Financial Backing, and i am very sure with the game not being sold on disc any more then price in games will go down.

Personally i am going to stick with OnLive. For the reason they can personally show it off and we know it works; Beta testers are playing it right now which they are on these forums. With OnLive having a 15$ subscription... which i have no problem with. Most of the world pays that subscription any ways. MMO account payments, PSN Credits & Xbox gold cards/ Credits. Seriously how hard is it just to pay 15$ for a subscription .. You already pay that price when you order a pizza and have it ordered to your house.

The rest of the money that you pay for the game is a legal right that you bought it.

Gaikai is nice but i can't help to think that it will fail over time while OnLive is still going to be there. I would rather Pay for Quality and Quantity rather than just paying for a game that is in a browser and that would be all that is.

tell me why you would not go with OnLive?

___________________________

Also Knowing that this going to play any game it can play any game of Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft Markets.

Netflix,Facebook, Twitter, and other services will join as well. As well knowing that they could possibly join later only means with the OnLive that we probably wont have to worry about watching something in HD or SD any more.

Just to think about it. When OnLive does grow into a major model. The OnLive Tech within the cloud will be enhanced as well.

for instant action you get these games that are pretty off the wall. No real audience is there. I would rather Play a game where a Company like EA will put out their full game of BFBC2 out there and let me enjoy it with friends. Instant action your having to use your own hardware. With OnLive having instant gratification and being to play any game at a constant 60FPS... Even Crysis on a 10yr old pc of shit laptop.

Crysis 2 will be out later and im sure that OnLive will show and take of advantage of that title.

Plus who wants to keep being pc parts, new consoles, or systems to meet our needs when OnLive has met it and is going to keep meeting it.

[Fixious]

for instant action you get these games that are pretty off the wall. No real audience is there. I would rather Play a game where a Company like EA will put out their full game of BFBC2 out there and let me enjoy it with friends. Instant action your having to use your own hardware. With OnLive having instant gratification and being to play any game at a constant 60FPS... Even Crysis on a 10yr old pc of shit laptop.

Crysis 2 will be out later and im sure that OnLive will show and take of advantage of that title.

Plus who wants to keep being pc parts, new consoles, or systems to meet our needs when OnLive has met it and is going to keep meeting it.

I wouldn't call Monkey Island 'off the wall' really. I mean, sure, it's no Bad Company 2, but it's certainly a well-known game. They've already signed with LucasArts, so I wouldn't be surprised if more of their games were ported over to InstantAction, plus any future games as well. Seeing as their CEO is still friendly with EA, I wouldn't be surprised to see a deal with them either. Not to mention they showed off Assassin's Creed running in Facebook during GDC.

And while IA will mostly need the right hardware, like OnLive, there will be times when you can simply stream the game thanks to GaiKai. As always, time will only tell. IA sorta came out of no where back in March, while OnLive has been known about for over a year, which helps a lot.

Good luck getting Crash7800's views on OnLive. :p

[crash7800]

Tell me why you would not go with OnLive?

You make some really great points here, but, although OnLive wouldn't be my personal choice, I'm a guest here on the OnLive forums and I don't think it'd be really fair of me to detract from what they're up to. So far, the OnLive community has been really great to me and I don't want to repay that with anything less than the mutual respect it deserves. Additionally, OnLive is a really interesting idea and cool tech - I won't lie and say I'm not interested to see where it goes! :)

So, while I won't say why I wouldn't choose OnLive for myself, I will say that we haven't completely tipped our entire hand yet. We're on the same page with you here in a lot of respects - you brings up some valid concerns about the current model of PC gaming. We fully plan to address aspects of what you've mentioned. We've definitely got more coming!

For InstantAction you get these games that are pretty off the wall. No real audience is there.

Well, to be fair, we've only been public about our new project since the San Francisco GDC. Personally, I'm really excited that we're getting a cult classic like Monkey Island and a modern masterpiece like Braid. Again, I can't say much but we are in contact with every major developer and publisher I can think of. While we don't have many titles announced at the moment, it's our plan to get as many available as soon as possible.

There are some things in here that aren't so much critiques of InstantAction or questions, but rather statements that I don't agree with. However, true to what I've said, I don't want to say anything negative. So, if you've got a question I'll be more than happy to answer it to the best of my ability :)

I hope I've answered all of your concerns. Let me know if I missed anything :)

[MAG1270]

Q: Will I need to download any plugin or similar to play IA games in my browser?

[crash7800]

InstantAction uses the InstantAction Player which requires a one-time install through Java. The installation takes less than a minute (closer to 10 seconds) and once you have the IA Player on your machine you can play any of the games we're hosting without having install it again. The player will work with Internet Explorer, Firefox and Chrome on Windows. We're working on Mac support too :)

The IA player does not collect or store any personal information and is completely and easily removable. :)