OK folks, here's what is going on

[Ryan DeJonghe]

Deleted threads? Missing articles? Moderators gone rogue? OK folks, here’s what is going on. Wait a second, let me get my cupcake and juice first.

OK, I’m back. Surprisingly, my cupcake had chocolate frosting inside; I’m not complaining because that is what is fueling me as I type this update.

Let’s start out by talking about negativity. To help me, I’ve brought along two quotes:

“Dwelling on the negative simply contributes to its power.” - Shirley MacLaine

“If there's not drama and negativity in my life, all my songs will be really wack and boring or something.” - Eminem

We’ve kind of hitting a boiling point, haven’t we? Recent threads seem submerged in negativity, doubt, and despair. Even threads that start as positive efforts, such as “say something good about OnLive,” quickly crash and burn into the flaming wreckage of the grumble-wubs.

Sadly, I’ve got a little pyro living inside of me and he loves drama. After all, when gaming news is quiet and people are standing around, smiling at each other, I think it is “really wack and boring”. I might see something start to flicker and I’ll bend down and start blowing the embers around—actually, I get bored easily, so I dump the entire gas can on—BOOM! For that, I apologize. As a moderator, writer, and knowledgable fan, it is not my position to stir-up debate. Moving forward (that’s the best way to go, right?) I will endeavor to tone my attitude down and keep my posts relevant for the good of the community. If I want drama, I’ll play my Eminem albums.

In my propaganda bombings, I’ve coined a few phrases: “OnLive’s communication sucks” and “coming soon….LOL”. Are these things true? Um....yeah, and then some. However, in the spirit of reconciliation and community harmony, we’re going to make every endeavor to keep these comments where they belong. In the last two weeks, I’ve started several threads and even hijacked the rest, all to say one thing. We’ve heard the feedback, I’ve slapped my own wrists, and we’re moving on in a more positive manner.

Let me use one more Eminem quote (can you tell what I’m playing while writing this?):

I'm not afraid
To take a stand
Everybody
Come take my hand
We'll walk this road together, through the storm
Whatever weather, cold or warm
Just lettin you know that, you're not alone
Holla if you feel like you've been down the same road

We’ve had a few good things happen this week. We’re now more emboldened to say what needs to say (just need a bit of tempering). We’ve caught the attention of a few folks in OnLive. We got a proper football game.

We’ve come a long way since last January. One year ago today, we didn’t even have the PlayPack. Today we’re getting 30% off all purchases by subscribing to the pack of nearly 200 games. Sure, some of us don’t understand the addition of Horse Simulator 3000, but the people using the new Parental Control feature are thankful. And mixed in, we’ve got several great games, many of which have been nominated for year-end awards.

Is everything cheerful? No. I’ve used the analogy of the relationship many times to describe us and OnLive. There are times when OnLive rocks our world. Then there are times when OnLive acts like a bitch. Then there are times where OnLive gives us the silent treatment. It’s who they are, for better or worse. We have to try and remember what it is that keeps bringing us back. We have to keep trying to keep our cool and clearly communicate our concerns.

Let’s use this time to collaborate, plan, and route future plans.

[wobblesplat]

Awesome. Great post, thank you. Everyone should read this.

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[D2H]

SIR YES SIR!!!! Sir what's the plan SIR!?!?!?

[Charles wong]

Wow, that's exactly what needed to be said.



(..verb)

[mrbojanglezs]

I have never read so many words that said practically nothing.

However still a good post.

[TSR_DropShot]

DEUTSCHLAND lol idk

[dandotc]

Let me guess...you're an Eminem fan.

[KicknGuitar]

I really want eminems now.


http://m-ms.net/resources/_wsb_494x367_M1.JPG

[zombiefreakk]

I really want eminems now.


http://m-ms.net/resources/_wsb_494x367_M1.JPG

I'd date the green one! She's a knockout:)

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[Lord Xenu]

I've explained how I felt in another post. Still though, nice post dude. It does make sense.

[vidvox]

I'd date the green one! She's a knockout:)

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So the green one isn't marriage material?

[KicknGuitar]

I'd date the green one! She's a knockout:)

Am I the only one who finds "sexual" female characters disturbing as fuck? i.e.

http://onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/gr/greenmandm/greenmandm_story1.jpg

or,

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5x8BhvHx_Ik/TYCu4g5eheI/AAAAAAAABsw/vJ9-JpeiMOs/s1600/SkinnyCowLogo-711070.gif

AGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!

[csta]

well unless they go and release from dust, dead island, and possibly bulletstorm soon then mabe they can turn things around but i cant see that happening...but its upto onlive to keep its users happy not us,

mabe they should pay devs to bring games to onlive or if there finding it hard just update all there major games like UTIII with titan pack and so on...ifeel they need to hire more help, or mabe join with valve and become

Steam-OnLive

means great valve games would come including steam exclusive call of duty

[TSR_DropShot]

All i ask from the world is more people on every multiplayer game..

[zombiefreakk]

So the green one isn't marriage material?

Not really. She's a tease;)

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[zombiefreakk]

Am I the only one who finds "sexual" female characters disturbing as fuck? i.e.

http://onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/gr/greenmandm/greenmandm_story1.jpg

or,

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5x8BhvHx_Ik/TYCu4g5eheI/AAAAAAAABsw/vJ9-JpeiMOs/s1600/SkinnyCowLogo-711070.gif

AGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!

You know I bet we'll never see a full body Geni4!

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[zombiefreakk]

well unless they go and release from dust, dead island, and possibly bulletstorm soon then mabe they can turn things around but i cant see that happening...but its upto onlive to keep its users happy not us,

mabe they should pay devs to bring games to onlive or if there finding it hard just update all there major games like UTIII with titan pack and so on...ifeel they need to hire more help, or mabe join with valve and become

Steam-OnLive

means great valve games would come including steam exclusive call of duty

Just remember Steve Perlman likes his workforce small. Which he will have to change that soon enough.

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[Daecat]

"Deleted threads? Missing articles? Moderators gone rogue? OK folks, here’s what is going on..." and then...

cupcakes and m&ms???

[zombiefreakk]

"Deleted threads? Missing articles? Moderators gone rogue? OK folks, here’s what is going on..." and then...

cupcakes and m&ms???

We've all gone mad! I feel like this forum has turned into Alice in Wonderland!

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[Tyrokiller]

cupcakes and m&ms???

They're the forums version of gremlins, in other words cupcakes be ruining the forum yo!

http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/157000/157835_Evil_Cupcake.jpg

[Ryan DeJonghe]

Interestingly, that cupcake looks like the one I had last night. Pink frosting with chocolate coming out the middle. And believe it or not, two M&M's for eyes. This thread is stranger than I thought.

I tried to be cool and fluff up my words, but for those that want the condensed version: Yes, OnLive has given us plenty of reason to be frustrated, but I've also been a naughty boy. A couple of us have posted several anger-filled statements and now we used our moderator magic dust to make them disappear. POOF! However, some of you have been spry and caught us in the middle of our grumblings. We heard you loud and clear. We are here to make this a great community and not a continuous bitch fest. So let's all take a moment for a group hug before moving to the next paragraph.

What do we do with OnLive? I think we have to realize what they are and deal with it accordingly, good and bad. We know this for sure: they are working on getting games and building new features. We also know the company has been built with a top-down structure and is cloaked with NDA's built by bloodthirsty lawyers. Add to this the many moving parts of developers, investors, gamers, and employees. Because of these moving parts, priorities shift almost by the hour, all being called by the top dogs. Unfortunately, there is also a huge disconnect between departments. Because of the workflow, it is hard for any one person to know what is going on. OnLive is porting games, helping developers understand the SDK, and putting games through the certification process.

Not making excuses, but two things cause the great wall of silence: 1) lawyers, and 2) left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

All that to say this: silence sucks and it makes people mad. OnLive definitenly needs to find a way to fix this, but we don't have to bombard our community with that fact. Negativity spreads, but so does optimism. Will Space Marine release today? I don't know. But what I do know is, I'm having a blast working through the games I own, such as L.A. Noire, Bastion, and Saints Row: The Third.

[Jongjungbu]

I will say that as a new user to OnLiveFans.com, it's quite a negative place. Of the people I've talked to about OnLive and OnLiveFans.com, none will register here or with the OnLive esrvice because it sounds like OnLive isn't a very good "platform". So I'm going it alone here in a way. But I enjoy OnLive for what it is so far and now, and I keep working on those people to try and at least demo the OnLive service even if they don't come here. I have hope that if the service grows, so will its library.

On another note, has everyone forgotten that if you eat a green M&M you can hit a homerun?

[Alucard Blades]

I will say that as a new user to OnLiveFans.com, it's quite a negative place. Of the people I've talked to about OnLive and OnLiveFans.com, none will register here or with the OnLive esrvice because it sounds like OnLive isn't a very good "platform". So I'm going it alone here in a way. But I enjoy OnLive for what it is so far and now, and I keep working on those people to try and at least demo the OnLive service even if they don't come here. I have hope that if the service grows, so will its library.

On another note, has everyone forgotten that if you eat a green M&M you can hit a homerun?

Jong, thanks for your input. That's really what this whole thread was about...we all noticed that the negativity was getting a bit out of hand, and we do want this community to still be the best place to be, and not always feel sad, dark, and negative lol.. :) Please do recommed your friends to come join us!

[Mastrik]

The negativity is because Onlive ignores there customers concerns and makes too many broken promises then leave customers standing with their **** in their hands

I don't think deleting and clamping down on free speech just because Onlive says so or that it is giving Onlive a bad rep is a good idea. Look at the uproar about SOPA and other censorship bills, if we start doing it to ourselves so we won't piss off the companies I think that is just as bad.

Covering up Onlives mistakes is just going to make it worse until Onlive wakes up and realizes they are screwing their customers too much we need to keep hammering them or walk away, not censor ourselves.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[Jongjungbu]

While I agree that censoring in general is not the answer, thread hijacking with negativity should be avoided if even at the risk of censoring that. I've noticed there are a lot of threads to post complaints in about specific issues or generalized commentary. Why spread it into an otherwise benign topic and waylay the original poster? I don't think doing that benefits anyone.

[Ryan DeJonghe]

While I agree that censoring in general is not the answer, thread hijacking with negativity should be avoided if even at the risk of censoring that. I've noticed there are a lot of threads to post complaints in about specific issues or generalized commentary. Why spread it into an otherwise benign topic and waylay the original poster? I don't think doing that benefits anyone.

That's exactly it. We've made our complaints and OnLive has seen them. Several of the moderators have been in contact with some key people at OnLive and we've guided them through several of the posts. I would encourage everyone to continue to voice their concerns, but keep it professional and in the right threads. I was getting out of hand and jumped over the line a few times; that's what this is all about. We want to keep things clean, professional, and organized. This is the way to be seen.

[zombiefreakk]

The negativity is because Onlive ignores there customers concerns and makes too many broken promises then leave customers standing with their **** in their hands

I don't think deleting and clamping down on free speech just because Onlive says so or that it is giving Onlive a bad rep is a good idea. Look at the uproar about SOPA and other censorship bills, if we start doing it to ourselves so we won't piss off the companies I think that is just as bad.

Covering up Onlives mistakes is just going to make it worse until Onlive wakes up and realizes they are screwing their customers too much we need to keep hammering them or walk away, not censor ourselves.

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I'm sorry but I have to agree with you. Deleting threads is still not right in my opinion let everyone state their opinions.

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[Jongjungbu]

Yeah, there are plenty of places to continue venting around here. There was a thread posted recently about the Steam companion app. There was no direct link mentioned with OnLive by the OP, yet the first response was a complaint about OnLive; and not even a mention of how the Steam companion app has anything to do with it. Sure, you can infer a link as to how this relates to OnLive issues. But it was a perfect example of what you are saying Ryan.

[Ryan DeJonghe]

I'm sorry but I have to agree with you. Deleting threads is still not right in my opinion let everyone state their opinions.

Keep in mind, we aren't deleting your threads. Both Ady and myself deleted our own threads. The admin has opened up an editorial section and as moderators or writers, we can use that as a platform. As moderators, we shouldn't let our anger get the best of us and create new threads to spread negative drama. I personally have been guilty of taking over other threads and changing them to the same theme: complaints about OnLive's communication.

What we are proposing is that we should keep the forums professional and positive. There are threads to express frustrations and we are asking that people keep things in the threads they belong. We are also 100% for candid conversations and we are NOT in the business of editing people's words for the sake of OnLive's approval. We are in the business of keeping the forums organized and professional. I had gotten away from that concept and this thread was a way for me to reconciliate myself to you all.

[zombiefreakk]

Keep in mind, we aren't deleting your threads. Both Ady and myself deleted our own threads. The admin has opened up an editorial section and as moderators or writers, we can use that as a platform. As moderators, we shouldn't let our anger get the best of us and create new threads to spread negative drama. I personally have been guilty of taking over other threads and changing them to the same theme: complaints about OnLive's communication.

What we are proposing is that we should keep the forums professional and positive. There are threads to express frustrations and we are asking that people keep things in the threads they belong. We are also 100% for candid conversations and we are NOT in the business of editing people's words for the sake of OnLive's approval. We are in the business of keeping the forums organized and professional. I had gotten away from that concept and this thread was a way for me to reconciliate myself to you all.

Well what you say makes sense. Its sad it came to so much negativity with OnLive but they let everyone down pretty much. Games disappeared, browser still not here, iOS player app not here either, and the desktop pro version coming soon? You see the problem here?

All it takes is updates to us on what's going on whether good or bad its better than being left wondering.

As if you deleting your threads bc of negativity with OnLive I do understand trying to be positive.

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[Goofboys]

Agree with this op thread entirely, in podcast 7 of the breaking point i did try and state my case for onlive and how positive i am about the service. Just listen to it and i think you can hear how much i love onlive. The fansite has got rather negative and anyone researching onlive will be watching. So a little bit of censorship is ok im my eyes anyway.But lets be real and not stop people complaining. Just more positivity would be nice instead of the same shit about games not releasing on time etc etc etc.ONLIVE IS THE DARK KNIGHT. Just play.
think of onlive when watching this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TibA0sQQZw8

[Jongjungbu]

Don't stop complaining. Just complain in the appropriate place(s) (or forum threads).

I see things like the following happen a lot in the short amount of time I've been here:
OP> Are you interested in the Clash of the Titans sequel?
#2> Nah, they are like OnLive. False promises of it being good.
#3> Yeah, OnLive needs to get on it.
#4> When are we getting the iOS app?
#5> After we get the Desktop Pro, which is never.

(This is a spoof of course heheh, but you get my point)

[AdyCarter]

Keep in mind, we aren't deleting your threads. Both Ady and myself deleted our own threads.

Yup, mine was an (admittedly valid) rant, however as I have a red name (or yellow or green) my words sometimes carry more weight (here not with OnLive, dare say most of them don't have a clue that I exist, why would they?). This is OnLiveFANS.com and me, Ryan or anyone else in a staff position making such huge rants just looks bad for the community as a whole.

Am I currently pretty dissapointed with OnLive for several reasons? Yes. Do I want to start a whole thread stirring this up? No. Us staffy folks are still human and still have opinions but we also have a "role" as it were in this fan community and I think several of us (myself) included lost sight of this.

We never have and never will censor other people, but me editing my own posts is no different to any of you guys doing so.

[liveslashdie]

Quite a lot of melodrama and most of it didn't make any sense to me, but the sentiment was good and some valid points raised.

[Lord Xenu]

I have to disagree with a statement made earlier. When I make a rant, voice an opinion, or even critique the service, I am not doing it while coming from a simple color and staff position. I am saying it from a personal standpoint as well as a gamer. When I am on the podcast, I am bs'ing with friends while we bring you any news OnLive has to offer. You guys shouldn't have to watch yourselves either as long as you aren't violating the forum's ToS. Do I think things have gotten negative lately? Yup. However, it has always been around. Just this time it all came out at once. No different than before. While I don't think calling out the whole MJ thing was a good idea, it brought up a point that has been brought up over and over again before.

[Warren]

Yup, mine was an (admittedly valid) rant, however as I have a red name (or yellow or green) my words sometimes carry more weight (here not with OnLive, dare say most of them don't have a clue that I exist, why would they?). This is OnLiveFANS.com and me, Ryan or anyone else in a staff position making such huge rants just looks bad for the community as a whole.

Just because you're on the higher end of a totem pole for a fan site doesn't make your criticisms any less valid. Nor does being a fan mean you can't say anything bad about the service you're a fan of. Deleting your own thread because of that is the wrong move if you ask me.

However, I understand the intimacy of standing up on a soap box and having all eyes on you. I can understand the want to delete a post in that regard. Not a lot of people can handle staring down the barrel of a corporate gun. I probably couldn't do it, myself.

Integrity of a fan site is important to me, and not saying something negative just because you're more likely to get seen is not something I agree with. Might as well start letting OnLive censor posts if that's the way it's going to be.

[Lord Xenu]

However, I understand the intimacy of standing up on a soap box and having all eyes on you. I can understand the want to delete a post in that regard. Not a lot of people can handle staring down the barrel of a corporate gun. I probably couldn't do it, myself.

I can only speak personally, but deciding to go off in the podcast was a REALLY hard decision. I had to take a few things into account. Putting the podcast in jeopardy, putting my status on the line, and maybe even having to deal with OnLive. It wasn't easy but I felt it was the right time based on the boiling point were working their way up to in previous threads. I still applaud Ryan for doing what he felt was right at the time. I know he hasn't so much backed down from his thoughts and opinions, just doing what might be right for the forums themselves. I understand that.

[Sneeman]

Look. Are we onlive fans or what? How are we supposed to convince people onlive is great if we're the ones complaining?... Is what I would like to say, if I was a hypocrite. We've all had our share of complaints. (at least I have). But hey, for a company that makes alot of mistakes and has alot of drawbacks there at least there keeping the deals coming and even offered some compensation for the warhammer multiplayer. We do ask for quite alot. We have to remember onlive doesn't have the money or the firepower sony and microsoft has. Their also pretty much pioneering this market. Their the ones walking into the dark basement and screwing in the lightbulbs so others can follow. I'm surprised at how far they've gone already.

Sent from my happy meal using a coupon.

[Warren]

Yes this is OnLive Fans, but if you pretend everything is roses to get new people into the service, when they start fully using it, they'll notice what the roses really smell like. When someone asks that person if they tried it out, they'll say, "Oh, yeah it was cool at first, but there were so many problems, don't bother with it." There goes two potential additions to the community. None of us want this service to grow any smaller than it is now, we want it to grow and spread like a disease.

That's why it's important to point these things out as fans of a service. Who better to receive criticisms from than those most passionate about it? Us bitching and complaining won't help bring more people in either, I realize this, however, us bitching and complaining is a symptom. You have to treat and fix the problem, not the symptom.

[Ryan DeJonghe]

Sounds like everyone is on track here. Everyone, including mods, have the right to voice concerns. Where I crossed the line was making various threads and taking over otherwise benign threads. Presenting valid and intelligible criticism is a worthy endeavor. The more professional we can keep ourselves, the better we appear to both fans and to the employees of OnLive that visit.

[MinistryOvWar]

So in essence the "league of rainbow" (colored names) have to hide/limit their personal and honest criticism/opinion in the name of.. being a brainwashed monkey by the corporate propaganda.

I was very impressed by the threads and upmost valid issues you brought up Ryan and could never understand some foolish people saying that "you are not a fan" and you shouldn't post negatives..and therefore ruin the OnLive image...

now lets not forget who is doing damage to themselves... its the company itself... they should be happy the community that created around its product strives to improve it and see it flourish... and this is achieved by balanced and reasonable critique!!

I just dont see why all of the sudden this softy approach.. at the end of the day OnLive is only there to make money, gain market share, reputation and make more money.

[Darq]

So in essence the "league of rainbow" (colored names) have to hide/limit their personal and honest criticism/opinion in the name of.. being a brainwashed monkey by the corporate propaganda.
Nope, that's not the case at all. Some staff feel that they didn't represent themselves as OnLiveFan staff in the best light possible, and going forward want to try a different approach. This was a conclusion reached by themselves, after seeking the feedback and advice from our member base and behind the scenes by their fellow staffers.


I was very impressed by the threads and upmost valid issues you brought up Ryan and could never understand some foolish people saying that "you are not a fan" and you shouldn't post negatives..and therefore ruin the OnLive image...
There is absolutely no doubt that Ryan has an amazing way with words, and nails important topics dead on. He is someone I have a lot of respect for, and I know he's earned that same respect from many members and staff alike. This thread has only increased my admiration for his actions. He has been doing something that the majority of humanity neglects: reflection. Even more than taking the time to reflect on his behaviors, words, actions and thoughts: in hindsight he saw room for improvement. Without letting his ego get in the way, he has been pursuing self growth. We could all learn from that. :)


now lets not forget who is doing damage to themselves... its the company itself... they should be happy the community that created around its product strives to improve it and see it flourish... and this is achieved by balanced and reasonable critique!!
I couldn't have said it better myself! It does start with OnLive. This doesn't mean that us as fans shouldn't continue to exercise patience, understanding, manners and positive criticism - if only for our own mental health. :D


I just dont see why all of the sudden this softy approach.. at the end of the day OnLive is only there to make money, gain market share, reputation and make more money.
I definitely can see how one could interpret the change in approach as 'going soft'. It's honestly all a matter of perspective. I personally see this new approach as an attempt at getting better results, and trying to keep the community in better spirits while we continue to watch and participate in the forward progress of OnLive.

What this all boils down for, to me: less negativity and more positive thinking. A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

[EightPieceBox]

The negativity specifically since Desktop came out got pretty ridiculous here, so I'm glad that the mods recognized that they were contributing to it. The threads didn't need to be deleted. In the future I would recommend locking them. Then you can explain in the final post why you locked it so no crazy conspiracy theories start. It would be nice if the moderators could try to be the voice of reason around here because we go through these phases of "Steve Perlman is God" and "Onlive is going out of business." Both of those statements are pretty silly at the moment.

[zombiefreakk]

I wish Steve Perlman would do another interview about OnLive and drop some info that would at least answer a few questions their users would like to know.

I really like Steve Perlmans interviews because I can tell he very deeply knows the answers we ask even though he want directly answer them sometimes and instead tell us hints of where things are headed.

Also I want to know where DIDO stands as of now.

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[Kyle Lenamon]

damn it want some DIDO internet right now lol maybe in 8 weeks lol

[zombiefreakk]

damn it want some DIDO internet right now lol maybe in 8 weeks lol

There we go. I fixed your post for you:)

damn it want some DIDO internet right now lol maybe in 8 years lol

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[Sorcerer]

It's a double edged sword isn't it?

Certainly the staff/moderatots are human beings/fans of games just like everybody else and have a right to complain or praise as anybody else does.

But on the other hand if someone is curious about Onlive and comes to the forum and finds the staff/moderators negative on the service what kind of impression does that leave with the viewer?

A tricky situation all the way around.

[subpixel]

I love how a topic so serious spawns talk about relations with green pieces of candy.

Good post, Ryan ;)

[MinistryOvWar]

It's a double edged sword isn't it?
But on the other hand if someone is curious about Onlive and comes to the forum and finds the staff/moderators negative on the service what kind of impression does that leave with the viewer?

A tricky situation all the way around.

When i discovered OnLive I didn't go look to the forums to see what others say about it.. i actually used it and checked if it works and then got in deeper with the common issues which the forums highlighted.

By making everything sound lovely before hand, after people try the service and find their issues, they will be wondering how the hell they couldn't find these problems on the forum. I think if you are aware of an issue you look at something differently than if you actually encounter it and anger yourself.

Also: Its not the forums job to bring new people to OnLive.. its a forum for people who already like the service and strive to make it better.

[Sorcerer]

When i discovered OnLive I didn't go look to the forums to see what others say about it.. i actually used it and checked if it works and then got in deeper with the common issues which the forums highlighted.

By making everything sound lovely before hand, after people try the service and find their issues, they will be wondering how the hell they couldn't find these problems on the forum. I think if you are aware of an issue you look at something differently than if you actually encounter it and anger yourself.

Also: Its not the forums job to bring new people to OnLive.. its a forum for people who already like the service and strive to make it better.


Well said.

Of course you are 100% correct.

I wasn't clear at all. I meant to say what would viewers think of the forum itself if its run by people who disliked the service? I wasn't even considering what they would think of Onlive themselves.


I actually am a big believer in unofficial forums where people can speak their minds truthfully.

I am always suspicious of gaming companies who don't run their own community forums. Its as though they don't want to deal with critisim in their own backyard so to speak. Razer and Onlive come to mind.

Gotta admire Logitech. There forums are filled with bad reviews and complaints but they don't censor them. (I am not singiling out Logitech as a bad company, any manufacturer of many products is bound to have some complaints and dud products.)

[Delinus]

This was about the moderators and their visibility as a representative of Onlivefans.com, not about the users of onlivefans.com. It is a moderator's job to make sure that they are percieved as fair and are not harboring an agenda of negativity. Users, however, are under no such obligation, we can be as unfair as we want to be. This remains unchanged.

It is also a responsibility of a moderator to make sure that the forums are organized and civil, stepping up to keep users from getting out of hand...this thankfully hasn't happened as much as other forums, so kudos to our users for being civil. Regardless, it is also a moderator's job to keep on topic. Hijacking is the purest form of chaos and keeps posts from being on topic, and turn them into a chaotic chatroom. Forums are not chatrooms and chatrooms are not forums.

As far as I know, they haven't deleted any posts from users, and Ryan is to be applauded for owning up to the "negativity". it is pretty prevalent, but forums are forums and people go to them to complain. Most people that go to forums are either very fanboyish, very opinionated, or very critical. (I belong to the very critical crowd, but age has tempered that.) I don't believe that users should be prevented from being critical or sarcastic. I mean, that would pretty much make me have to stop posting, period.

I think the only thing we can do to curb negativity is all try to form our concerns in a polite way without getting off topic, and use a forum as it is intended.

The name OnliveFANS is unfortunate, because by its nature makes it seem like we are hypocrites because we are not extreme fanboys. I go back in my memories to a time when this forum had a lot more optimism, and the change is odd. What caused this? The Space Marine Delay? The UDP connection error? (i had this one for 3 months) The promises undelivered? The increasing trend of indie games released drowning out the few AAA titles?

In the end it doesn't really matter what caused an increase in negativity. We just have to ask ourselves one question, does what we post about improve onlive's service, and improve the gaming experience of anyone that posts here? Most of the time when we post negatively, it is probably not. This is the reason, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.", is a popular saying.

These two concepts of voicing opinions and the quote I referenced above do seem to be contradicting of one another, I admit. This is because this forum needs to balance the two, having both honest uncensored opinions (from the users) and polite tactfulness. There's really not much more to say, other than for us to think before we post. If our post is negative, but will bring about productive conflict? Post away. If it's just whining though, its best kept for chatrooms.

[Goofboys]

Once uk internet stabilises alot of the issues will hopefully melt away down the pipe.