Split screen games?

[DOODLES]

I was wondering if maybe they might have multiplayer on the same console just like halo 3. Where we could connect multiple controllers just like xbox 360 so i can play with friends that don't have onlive.:confused:

[Alfrayer]

Well as of yet we dont know how multiple users are going to be handled but they are having split screen for sure (since theres support of up to 4 controllers) and i can only presume multiplaying locally going online at the same time since they boast support for 4 headsets at the same time.

[AlexTheLion]

We can't really know exactly how they are going to handle multiplayer on the same console, but since the microconsole can support 4 controllers, they will have to have the ability to have split-screen play. But like I said, We really can't know the details until they release more information. Make sure to check the News Articles section of the forum :)

[Aph0ticShield]

Well, in theory, if the pc version of the game supports split screen, then that would make complete sense that the OnLive version does as well, but I know only a select few of those.

[AlexTheLion]

I don't know, because Onlive might not have the capability to go split-screen

[Aph0ticShield]

I don't know, because Onlive might not have the capability to go split-screen

Well that makes no sense at all. Wouldn't it be developers that decides what it is capable of? With 4 controllers per console, split screen is a must.

[Tyrokiller]

Well that makes no sense at all. Wouldn't it be developers that decides what it is capable of? With 4 controllers per console, split screen is a must.

Sure the ports seem to tell us something but from what I understand the game would have to retrieve and record x4 of information since there would be 4 people playing and therefore 4 different sets of instructions going through your network to the server.

So in essence the 450mb per hour would be considerably more for standard definition.

[Alfrayer]

Good point there tyro... With 4 players online, it would have to process 4 seperate sets of information at one instance for one connection - which would not only impose lag but also a 4 x the bandwidth usage.

[AlexTheLion]

Is there any way they could connect the controller ports somehow? Or perhaps compress all of the inputs from the controllers into a smaller package?

[Aph0ticShield]

Good point there tyro... With 4 players online, it would have to process 4 seperate sets of information at one instance for one connection - which would not only impose lag but also a 4 x the bandwidth usage.

No, because only the upload bandwidth speed will rise by 4x. Well since it is only like 50kb per second, that would make it like 150kb per second more than it currently is. Not that bit of a deal, you know?

[Alfrayer]

So you're saying having four different frames changing on screen in 720p will be require the same down stream as 1 changing frame in the same 720p?

[Outlawed Toker]

yea the microconsole has support for 4 controllers, so.... but if they do have splictscreen then they simply won't be able to just be running the pc version of the game on their pcs like they were hinting at during gdc, since no pc games support split screen.

They would somehow have to modify a ps3/360 version of the game to run on their supper pcs, or just a modded version of the pc game. Either way, goes to show that even right out of lanuch, any game with splitscreen support is going to have to be designed specifically for the onlive service, not just a simple pc version of the game running on the systems.

[Aph0ticShield]

So you're saying having four different frames changing on screen in 720p will be require the same down stream as 1 changing frame in the same 720p?

No, you will not be receiving four frames at 720p each. Remember OnLive basically captures a video feed of what you are playing and sends it on down to you, therefore it will still be one frame. Yes, the compression would have to be less since more is changing on screen, but that amount will still be less than the 4mbps they are talking about.

Maybe we are talking about two separate concepts. Are you talking about send separate video feeds to two physically separate screens? If so, then I call tell you that that is 99% not going to happen. The Microconsole only has one output and they would want you to buy two subscriptions for 2 people to play on separate TVs. This has also not been introduced in any of the current generation consoles.


yea the microconsole has support for 4 controllers, so.... but if they do have splictscreen then they simply won't be able to just be running the pc version of the game on their pcs like they were hinting at during gdc, since no pc games support split screen.

They would somehow have to modify a ps3/360 version of the game to run on their supper pcs, or just a modded version of the pc game. Either way, goes to show that even right out of lanuch, any game with splitscreen support is going to have to be designed specifically for the onlive service, not just a simple pc version of the game running on the systems.

Like I said, I have seen very few games that have split screen, but I have seen them. Racing games, for instance, will sometimes include this feature since it only requires a keyboard. I can also understand that other genres of games will probably have to port the split screen feature from probably 360 games since they are very similar to PC games. My guess though is that some developers won't even bother, at least not at first.

[AlexTheLion]

Couldn't Onlive only send you the part of the frame that changed...instead of sending you a whole new frame each time you move and/or enter a command, it could only send you the part of the frame that has transformed/moved.

[Tyrokiller]

Abit of mindless calculations, If wrong then kill me. :)

350mb - current Standard Def. per hour.
5.83*mb - Per min.
0.0972*mb - Per second.

0.972Kb/s

(Rough guess - 0.012kb controls)
0.0012mb/s
0.072mb/m
4.32mb/h

Not a massive increase but still a slight drain more, remember that we don't know how many mb's controls would be taking up. If 0.0072mb/s we could see a much bigger increase.

i.e. 25m/h

[Aph0ticShield]

Couldn't Onlive only send you the part of the frame that changed...instead of sending you a whole new frame each time you move and/or enter a command, it could only send you the part of the frame that has transformed/moved.

Yes, and I believe that is how their compression technology is built, but I really don't have a clue.




Not a massive increase but still a slight drain more, remember that we don't know how many mb's controls would be taking up. If 0.0072mb/s we could see a much bigger increase.

i.e. 25m/h

See, you understand what I am trying to say. I think some people believe that the download bandwidth demands would increase as well as the upload. 25MB every hour isn't bad at all for an increase by 4x in upload demands. Very good calculations

[Darq]

Again, Aphot clarifies this topic very well.

If the game supports split screen, and OnLive supports the game then it will have the split screen option. We know that it supports up to four controllers, so I would expect that means "local" multi-play will be possible as well as split screen. It would be up to the developers whether a particular title is going to have split screen or not.

[Tyrokiller]

See, you understand what I am trying to say. I think some people believe that the download bandwidth demands would increase as well as the upload. 25MB every hour isn't bad at all for an increase by 4x in upload demands. Very good calculations

Thankyou, the main good point is that the increase would be the same for HD too since controls don't increase just because of better colours. :)

Still have to keep in mind that we don't know how much it will really take up since it could be even bigger than that - will have to wait until someone get's the calculations during beta phase.

[DOODLES]

Im sure they are going to have multiplayer on the same console, they are not going to have us missing our current consoles that have the up to 4 player local multiplayer ability. I mean it wouldn't make sense would it? However if they didn't which is highly unlikely im sure there will be something to make up for that.

[Tyrokiller]

Well i've just been thinking, but since there are four ports, could that mean 4 player - gamepads (Xbox/PS3 controllers) or two keyboards/mouses.

Wonder if thats possible?

[AlexTheLion]

Well i've just been thinking, but since there are four ports, could that mean 4 player - gamepads (Xbox/PS3 controllers) or two keyboards/mouses.

Wonder if thats possible?

Well it seems to me that you can plug anything you want into USB, so why not have to different systems of control at the same time? Is there any reason it wouldn't work?

Or maybe I just don't know...please correct me if I'm wrong.

[DOODLES]

Well it seems to me that you can plug anything you want into USB, so why not have to different systems of control at the same time? Is there any reason it wouldn't work?

Or maybe I just don't know...please correct me if I'm wrong.

Im sure that you can't just plug anything you want into the usb ports im sure they will offer like a music application where you can plug your ipod or something. But as far as anything the only thing i know of for sure that can work for the Onlive micro console is controllers for computers and mouse/keyboard. As for different systems of control im sure that will vary by game.

[Darq]

For some reason I thought there was mention by Steve Perlman that the microconsole will support plug-'n'-play functionality in one of the videos he was interviewed in. I'm rather tired at the moment. Am I right in this?

[Himitsu no Nazo]

Ifthey have already anounced that it will support, it's because they are shure that local multiplayer will work.

The download will not rise, because as it's only 1 video stream the data is processed in the server, so makes no difference if the windows is devided into 2, 3 or 4 parts, it's the server that will handle that (and it all comes to how powerfull their servers can be)


No, because only the upload bandwidth speed will rise by 4x. Well since it is only like 50kb per second, that would make it like 150kb per second more than it currently is. Not that bit of a deal, you know?
Good point, but the upload will really be 50kb/s?

Is there more data other than controller inputs to upload? Maybe "current state of the game", or "account info"?

[AlexTheLion]

Yes, but the account info won't need to be constantly uploaded to the servers, whereas your controller inputs will.

[Aph0ticShield]

Well i've just been thinking, but since there are four ports, could that mean 4 player - gamepads (Xbox/PS3 controllers) or two keyboards/mouses.

Wonder if thats possible?

Yes and no, they could support as many as probably 10 players on one console because they allow for USB hubs which will give you more ports. PS3 controllers will not be supported, and Xbox 360 controllers probably will be because of the USB connection. One could have, say, 4 keyboards and "mouses":D


For some reason I thought there was mention by Steve Perlman that the microconsole will support plug-'n'-play functionality in one of the videos he was interviewed in. I'm rather tired at the moment. Am I right in this?

That is what I thought also, but it will take time to have everything ready for plug-'n'-play because they have to port drivers from Windows or create their own.

[Tyrokiller]

Yes and no, they could support as many as probably 10 players on one console because they allow for USB hubs which will give you more ports. PS3 controllers will not be supported, and Xbox 360 controllers probably will be because of the USB connection. One could have, say, 4 keyboards and "mouses":D


Good point, still at least we now know that we can actually have a decent RTS game using one T.v. screen using keyboards. :)

[Aph0ticShield]

Yes and no, they could support as many as probably 10 players on one console because they allow for USB hubs which will give you more ports. PS3 controllers will not be supported, and Xbox 360 controllers probably will be because of the USB connection.

Hey, I would like to correct myself here, as I have done in other threads. PS3 controllers DO have USB, but do not officially support the PC with any drivers. Therefore, I believe that OnLive cannot use any unapproved drivers, but only official ones ported from the PC. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Tyrokiller]

Your most likely right since the PS3 controllers have the weird analog stick thing - can't reember what its called. And most games besides those on the PS3 don't support it so therefore most likely no driver support since it isn't needed. :)

[Revilo62RAWR]

the six axis thing? and you can still use it probably, just plug it in with a mini USB. The six axis isn't use in most games on the PS3 any ways

[Aph0ticShield]

the six axis thing? and you can still use it probably, just plug it in with a mini USB. The six axis isn't use in most games on the PS3 any ways

I really don't know about that, but the dualshock 3 also has the mini USB on it also.

How did we get so off-topic?

[Darq]

It is still on-topic, to a degree. You were all discussing the impact that multiple controllers would have, and from there the thread went into clarifying the controller support. :)

[Guitarbandit90]

The only thing I wonder though, is if the other players that are playing split screen with you need a paid OnLive account.

[Revilo62RAWR]

The only thing I wonder though, is if the other players that are playing split screen with you need a paid OnLive account.

Most likely a guest account like on Xbox. Friends can play on your account just guest.

[Darq]

Most likely a guest account like on Xbox. Friends can play on your account just guest.

The guest account feature of XBox Live is brilliant. I greatly hope that it OnLive will have this feature.

[Guitarbandit90]

The guest account feature of XBox Live is brilliant. I greatly hope that it OnLive will have this feature.

Yeah, that would be really awesome.

[Aph0ticShield]

The guest account feature of XBox Live is brilliant. I greatly hope that it OnLive will have this feature.

Just speculation, but I don't believe OnLive will allow multiple accounts to be logged in on the same console. The "guest" feature would be 1000% necessary in this case.

[Darq]

Just speculation, but I don't believe OnLive will allow multiple accounts to be logged in on the same console. The "guest" feature would be 1000% necessary in this case.

It seems a bit odd that it could support up to four wireless controllers without guest accounts, or more than one account being signed in.

[RualStorge]

unless instead of four controllers (IE for physical controllers) 4 controllers was actually...

Mouse
Keyboard
Joystick
Game controller
etc.

Just a thought (though I personally figure they'll just throw on split screen)

[Darq]

Everything I know and has been said leads me to believe it will support multiple simultaneous log ons. ;)

[1narm]

How much will a new controller cost?

[RualStorge]

no prices have been released.